My Big Gay Podcast
My Big Gay Podcast is the ultimate LGBTQ+ comedy show, diving headfirst into the highs, lows, and LOLs of gay life in London and beyond... (wait, did somebody just say head?!).
Hosted by your new gay BFFs, Benji and Brad, this podcast spills all the tea on their adventures as two gay guys in their 30s, juggling careers, chasing love, and living their best big gay lives in the greatest city in the world.
Now in its sixth fabulous season and recently crowned the TOP 3 LGBTQ+ podcast in the UK and a TOP 20 Comedy Podcast worldwide, My Big Gay Podcast is your backstage pass to hilarious celebrity interviews, outrageous games, epic competitions and heartwarming listener stories. It's been called “Bridget Jones’s Diary meets Sex and the City—but way gayer!”
So, if you’re up for a good time (and maybe some mischief), join Benji and Brad as they navigate the wild world of love, laughter, and life. Want to play along or get in touch? Slide into their DMs on Instagram: @BigGayPodcast, or hit up their website at www.MyBigGayPodcast.com.
My Big Gay Podcast
S6. Ep 14. Two Gays and the Gay Surrogacy (Part 2)
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What does it truly mean to embrace fatherhood in a same-gender relationship amidst the societal norms and challenges? In our latest episode, we sit down with John Joe as he reveals his heartwarming and eye-opening journey of becoming a father through surrogacy. From the emotional highs and lows of preparing for twins to the unexpected hurdles with healthcare providers, John Joe shares his story with candor and humor. His experiences highlight the importance of advocating for equal participation in prenatal appointments and the vital role of respecting and protecting the surrogate throughout the journey.As the conversation unfolds, John Joe takes us through the whimsical but thoughtful process of choosing names for the twins, weaving cultural legacies with future aspirations. Shopping for the babies becomes an adventure filled with societal questions unique to non-traditional families. John Joe also provides valuable insights on fostering a secure and valued family environment for the children amidst potential inquiries about their family structure. With a focus on emotional and social resources, listeners will find practical advice for navigating the joys and challenges of surrogacy.
The episode wraps up with a detailed look at the financial landscape of surrogacy in the UK. John Joe brings attention to the stark differences in costs compared to the US and the lack of NHS support for non-hetero couples. By sharing his personal experiences, John Joe offers a roadmap for others considering this path, complete with expert tips on planning for the future. Join us for an inspiring discussion that not only sheds light on the financial and legal aspects of surrogacy but also celebrates the evolving definition of family.
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Hello podcasters and welcome back to part two of a very special episode where we're talking to John Joe. John Joe is in a same-gendered relationship and he's currently going through surrogacy and very soon will become a father. If you haven't listened to part one, please make sure you listen to that first. Otherwise, on with the podcast.
Speaker 2:Gosh Benji, I feel like I have learned so much information already. I feel more educated today than I did yesterday.
Speaker 1:Than ever before in my life, than ever before Do you?
Speaker 2:know what I think I might ask my boss for a pay rise. I've learned new information.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm surprised you have a job, me too.
Speaker 2:But Jonjo, so talk us through what's been happening recently and preparing for the baby, because you've obviously gone from wanting to have a child to having two children on the way, and so what is the next step? So you found out you've got twins coming. Have you been shopping? Have you been going to classes? What's been going on?
Speaker 3:It's been mental because it goes by so quickly, like I have this app and it tells you every week how the baby's growing and what's happening to them and et cetera, and it's just magical and disgusting all at the same time. But yes, I have been shopping, but I didn't do it for a really long time because I was really worried about all this lot of superstition around it. You know the silly things that I can't help but not do. Our success rate, for example, was 7%. We had a 7% chance of this working the first time around.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's so low. I thought that'd be higher.
Speaker 3:No, with their age brackets, and we were trying for two at the same time. So we did try for two at the same time. We put two embryos in and the weirdest thing, the first part of the journey is you do the pregnancy. Steph did a pregnancy test. She actually did a pregnancy test much earlier. She was like, guys, my boobs hurt, so I'm going to go check and it came through really strongly. So we were really really, really lucky. We were like over the moon and celebrating and everything like that.
Speaker 3:But then the first thing you learn is actually, you think the babies now are a week old or two weeks old or whatever day that you've just tested on. No, they're like um, nearly two and a half, three weeks old by that point, because when they uh do the IVF transfer, um, it goes straight into the lining of the womb and naturally that would take quite a few days. So you're already further ahead than you thought you were. So your time is running out and, as part of the surrogacy process, you have to, by law, have um counseling, uh separately with your partner, um and then separate from your partner, and and so too does the surrogate um you need wills, you need life insurance.
Speaker 3:Um, you need to sort legal advice. Um, you need all of that stuff sorting in advance, and it's the same for the surrogate. You have to pay those expenses. So you have to make sure they've had legal advice and counseling and and it's right, it's perfectly right, you don't? You know, you want to protect the surrogate and make sure that they're a human. You don't want to exploit them in any way whatsoever. Um, so you go about doing that. And then the superstitions about not bringing the pram inside the house until it's, because every single week, until you get that solid, you know, you get to the sort of uh, 30 week mark where you can start to sort of rest a bit and you think right is actually going to happen now. Um, you still don't know you know, it could not happen.
Speaker 3:You know so many complications and with twins, you know they can give you um a due date, but actually it can be any time, sort of six weeks before that, because they don't let twins grow as big as children when you just have one, because there's not enough room, etc. And so they get them out a bit earlier. Um, but shopping, yes, and it's been lovely. Um, my mother-in-law and my mother just have been desperate to go shopping with me and, um, I wouldn't let them because I was too superstitious, I was like it's too early, it's too early, hold on.
Speaker 3:And then when I finally said yes, oh my, they go over like, oh, we've got teddy bears, we've got this and we've got blankets and cots and grip, but it is so expensive and a second american express card literally exactly that yeah, um, but they were so excited to do it so it's been really, really exciting and, like I said, we're we've been told it can be any point from now that they're due, so we're having to keep, uh, within an hour of eastbourne, which is where my sister-in-law lives, um, just so that we're ready to go. But you know, we've had appointments and stuff like that with the doctors and they weren't ready for it. They weren't ready for, um, a same-sex couple coming in. They didn't know what the protocol was or what to say or what not say. It's. It's been a journey in that respect as well. You know, midwife saying, well, I remember we're having one of the first scans and, um, we weren't both allowed in the room with with steph. They only wanted one of us in the room. We were like, well, we're both, we're both going to be the dads we need to be, need to be in the room, and we had to fight that. And you know that's why we've had to check with the hospital now and make sure that everything's okay and everything's set up with a birthing plan, that we've totally followed Steph's lead as well with that. You know, they asked the surrogate if they want to have time with the children before they hand them over and things like that.
Speaker 3:But there's so many things we've learned. For example, you know, just in general, we're entitled to paternity leave and we're also entitled to adoption leave. Adoption leave is great. It doesn't sound great because it's got the word adoption in it and they just need to update that title, which hopefully they will, but it's. It's something like 29 weeks um of 90 pay, or also. It's really good. It's like a really good deal.
Speaker 3:But what we're not entitled to is and it's actually happened with my husband, um, but he's managed to sort it, since, as a man, you can't just go into a job tomorrow and then say, oh, by the way, I'm having babies in a month's time. Uh, you won't be allowed the time off because you won't have been there. It's a government rule. You won't have been there long enough to be entitled to it. So my husband was like so you're telling me I'm going to have kids on Thursday and you want me back in on Friday? And he managed to sort it all out. But yeah, whereas if you're a woman having a child, obviously you've got to heal, etc. Uh, you can start a job tomorrow and then go and return to leave the next day so just for my brain, is that because it's uh male versus female, right?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah it's not quite. It's not where it should be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, at the minute we're not best protected, sure, but that is changing and they're looking into making changes and things like that and just going back to the story you said about um only allowing one of the fathers in the room, and since then that's changed. Is that because that hospital or those people didn't know any different and so they're also learning about the evolve of other types of peritone? That isn't your heteronormative.
Speaker 3:Yeah exactly that. So they they were like oh, of course that's a silly rule. We'll change that straight away. Of course you're both allowed in and yeah, we're very excited to have that day where we get to put them in the little car seats and take them out.
Speaker 1:So, going back, you mentioned you're having twins. Yeah, and you always wanted to have twins.
Speaker 3:So we tried for twins. Yeah, we put two embryos in to begin with. A lot of clinics won't do it because it's such a high risk and all clinics are measured by their success rates. So for such a high risk and all clinics are measured by their success rates, so for them they try to avoid anything too that's going to lower that rate effectively, and I know just because I do watch the kardashians and they actually did have a really strong surrogacy story on their last season the last two seasons actually which was, I thought, very interesting.
Speaker 1:Um, there are some clinics where you can like you can choose the gender of the baby, you can choose the eye color color you can choose literally. It's like design a baby, yeah, yeah, yeah. Somebody on the Real Housewives did it as well. They were like I want a boy, I want blue eyes. Literally, you pick things. Now, it doesn't always happen, but you can request them. Is that something you were ever offered or did you want it to be sort of so it's illegal in England to, of course, classic americans, but I do have.
Speaker 3:I'm not sure if I can tell the story, but I did have a very strange moment where we made our embryos and they take they, they grow them for 10 days to see which ones survive. So we had 10 eggs. Uh sorry, we had 12 eggs and of the 12 eggs, 10 came through, and that was really great, because it's normally about 40 that that come through. So already you're already losing 60% of what you've tried to create Um. And then they grade them like AA, bbb, ccc. Aa is the best Um and it's three different categories that they measure. I can't remember off the top of my head what they are, but the clinic put in an AAA and a BBB, even though I had more AAs to use. And when I why, they just said just don't worry, don't worry about it.
Speaker 3:And so I did worry about it yeah I would too, and uh, this is complete conspiracy now and obviously it's legal to do it and I'm sure they don't do it. Um, but I think it's because you know we did mention it would be the absolute joy better than winning the lottery would be to have a boy and a girl right, and then you either well, the, the gender of a baby is decided almost instantaneously so they can see it on screen, even if they're not allowed to tell you.
Speaker 3:Um, but yeah, like you said, in america you can go and choose whatever you want. But it is also about 250 to 300 000 and that's before you factor in. You might need to live over there for nine months because you need to get your children or child a passport. You know how hard it is getting a passport in England. You've got to wait for that process and look after the children over there whilst they do that, and flights and things like that, and accommodation and even the surrogate's expenses.
Speaker 2:So did your wish come true. Are you expecting a boy and girl? I am, I am indeed.
Speaker 3:Very, very excited. Uh, stephanie did the gender reveal for us and my whole family were there and robbie's whole family were there, and it was so magical, it was so lovely. She, she tricked us royally, she, uh, she got us nine um balloons that you couldn't see through. And she said, in, there is the gender. And I said, right, well, there's two. So if it is a boy and a girl, how's that going to work? He said, well, the confetti inside will have two different colors. Um, so we're very excited about that.
Speaker 3:We've got the whole family around, we're popping all the balloons, we're getting rounds of applause and cheers and everyone's like, ah, we got to balloon eight pop that one white confetti came out again for the eighth time and we were like, what, what happened? What happened? And then she, uh, she lent her head around the corner, said you need to call your fur babies into the room. So I've got two dogs, two cockapoos. So I screamed at the top of my lungs ted, woodford, come, come. They ran in pink balloon came in first, with woodford on carrying it for us. It was tied to his um collar and the blue one came just afterwards.
Speaker 2:So we were very, very excited, very excited, yeah, there were lots of tears. Benji, I feel really broody. Are you sure you don't want to have a baby with me?
Speaker 1:I am really sure that I don't. I've never been more sure of anything in my life than having you to co-parent me like having three kids, my goodness yeah, literally, literally, that gosh um, so you found out you were having twins.
Speaker 2:You found a boy and a girl. Have you spoke about baby names? Obviously you don't have to tell us, but have you had that conversation? Oh it is the question on every family members I'm sure it's a question on our lips as well we have.
Speaker 3:We thought long and hard about names. We couldn't decide. We honestly couldn't decide. There's so many lovely names out there and so many have different meanings. So I used to be a teacher for a long time, so I turned it into a bit of a teaching game. How we decided and effectively we had 12 cards, 12 pebbles each, and if we really liked a name we could put two pebbles on. It took a pebble from that you could have used for another card. Then it means you like that name less. And then I did the same with the dogs. I put two bits of cheese on both of them and, robbie, let them go at the same time. They're both and weirdly enough, they both went for the same names we'd also chosen oh, we're keeping them a secret, of course, because we were asking all the family members about different names and you ask different people about what they think about different names and you'll love a name and then they'll go no, no, no, no. I went to a school with so-and-so and that was awful.
Speaker 1:Now, john Joe, bear with me. Here. You are after two names and there are two hosts of the podcast, and I do believe Bradley can be used as a girl's name, so you could always go for Benji and Bradley Jr. My lips are sealed.
Speaker 3:But there's a strong possibility. Oh yeah, it's a yes actually for a long time we were going to go with a and b, as in a y e and b a, b e, a oh wow, just because we were like we can't think of anything else.
Speaker 1:Baby one, baby two Do you have?
Speaker 2:any name ideas for yours, Brad? Do I have any names? I mean, I always quite like the name Ray.
Speaker 3:Oh, lovely, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:Ray, You're not too sure on that one, are you Benji?
Speaker 1:Is that, ray, as in R-A-Y-I?
Speaker 2:R-A-Y as in, like Ray of Sunshine.
Speaker 1:I like it for a girl yeah it would be for a girl.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I kind of like that there's a famous singer called Ray, with an E at the end R-A-Y-E there is, but also it could be a boy's name, because Ray Charles the singer yeah, I don't know if I like it for a boy, ray.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, you can say it as much as you like. I definitely like it, ray. Okay, so just the girl's name.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just Ray. Yeah, I like Ray. What about you?
Speaker 1:I do. Now I'm a bit weird when it comes to names. I kind of want to go. I will never forget when Gwyneth Paltrow called her kid Apple right, and everyone was talking about it and I was like this is crazy Apple. And the more I thought about it, the more I loved random names. So I'm not going to go with a child. I thought I was going to get absolutely shredded for this. I am going to go for the lead character of a TV program that I used to watch when I was younger, and if it's a boy, I would call him. Are you ready for this? Aslan, Aslan for the boy.
Speaker 2:Aslan.
Speaker 3:Strong. That was a strong name. That was on my list, was it? No way.
Speaker 1:Also on my list is Mil it it was no way what it was, oh my God. Also on my list is Milo. Oh, I like that name, milo with an I.
Speaker 3:That is everybody's dog.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, it's because of the Tweenies we all grew up and everyone liked Milo from the Twitch. Remember the Tweenies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do, yeah, yeah as an array.
Speaker 3:They will not be friends. Can ray come home? But no, but it was awkward because it was not awkward, but it was difficult because, uh, I have quite a strong irish heritage and robbie has a whole range of different heritages. Actually I don't think he's like a strong percentage of any particular, but he does have a quite a strong indian heritage as well. I'm trying to get all of that in there and also trying not to piss anyone off in the family and things like that. It's really, and it has to be future proof, has to be future proof. But I will say this going baby shopping is wonderful. Yeah, it is. It is lovely. It's so, oh, so cute and so lovely. But then you start to get the questions so how's mum? How's mum doing?
Speaker 2:how's she coming along?
Speaker 3:all these sort of things, and it was something I was really conscious of um, because I thought to myself you know what? What do I say when someone comes up to my, my four-year-old twins, and says where's your mum? Or any of those kind of questions? Innocently, innocently put, innocently asked um, and we've already had it. You know, we'll go to a restaurant and we'll go with stephanie, my sister-in-law, and the waitress or waiter will turn around and say, oh, congratulations, how far along are you? And she'll, she'll answer the question, she'll go um, actually it's, uh, it's my brother-in-law's baby and he's married to my brother who's sat next to me and you just see their head explode yeah, of course, yeah, but you've got to be.
Speaker 3:You've got to be wary of these kind of questions. You know you don't want your family or your children to think that they come from something lesser or that their family unit is not as strong as another family unit because of an innocent question that's been asked.
Speaker 1:So you've got to be prepared well, you mentioned that you're as part of surrogacy. You've sources that you can go to oh, that's a really great question.
Speaker 3:No, not particularly. They more help you with um sort of whatever you really want to talk about, to do with it, but predominantly the sort of bonding side of things, um helping the child if they have questions and making sure mentally that they're okay. One of the biggest things I had when I was looking at this, and one of the things that kind of put me off surrogacy or just having children to a gay family, was are they going to be okay in the world, um, the world of today? And I was really worried about that. And you know, like I said, I used to be a teacher and I started to see that it was definitely better than in my day. But is it good enough?
Speaker 3:And surrogacy org, surrogacy ukorg, one of the one of the agencies that that you can use, and we, we went to one of their events and they had a huge study done.
Speaker 3:It was Cambridge University, I'll find the name in a minute and it was on the happiness of the children that were born through surrogacy to same-sex parents.
Speaker 3:And it sold it to me because, to summarise it very, very quickly, because it's a 30-year study they followed the same children around for 30 years is that sort of between the ages of 9 and 11, children born to surrogacy start to question where they've come from and have a bit of dip at school in terms of happiness and behavior and all that sort of stuff. By 12 that they're all, they're just, you know, on the same sort of level as children born through to hetero couples. And then it's children at 12 in hetero couples that then have their dip and and start to hormones kick in and they start to, you know, have a bit of a happiness dip or a behavior issue kind of dip. But by by time they're all sort of 13, 14, 15. They plateau out again. And that was really important to me to know that the child wasn't going to suffer and I wasn't doing it for selfish reasons, that I wanted children. Naturally it was going to be really bad for them. But yeah, it's really's really interesting and there's so much we've learned.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so how have you prepared for all these sort of questions? Are there? Any books you've been reading, yeah.
Speaker 3:So there's a couple of books that I've read. The Ultimate Guide for Gay Dads was a really good one, and it crosses. You know what happens at school on Mother's Day.
Speaker 3:I didn't even think of that at all. Do you want your child to feel less or think they feel you might feel less because they can't celebrate Mother's Day? So you talk to the school about it and they celebrate Grandmother's Day, auntie's Day, whoever is strong in their life day, or whatever it can be. Anything and how to deal with those kind of problems. And then the innocent questions you'll get in the street, sort of where's your mum or where's mummy or how's mummy doing? And you don't want the child again to feel lesser in your family bond, in your family unit. So you say with bride, actually we're a two-day, we're a two-dad family, and you might not. He even says in the book you might not feel like answering like that in such a mature way. If it's an offhand comment from someone that you don't get the best of vibes from, and that's fine, tell them to go elsewhere.
Speaker 1:To fuck off, yeah, absolutely, I didn't know we could say that you can say that, Lousy. Yeah, these are the sort of things you'd never really think about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no same. I mean you've totally opened up my eyes to sort of like the possibility of this because, as we were saying earlier, we, um, I've never taught this at school or didn't even know this could be a possibility for me, you know no and that's helping schools.
Speaker 3:Actually now there are quite a lot of schools that are teaching how the different ways, because even you know, gays, lesbians aside, straight couples really struggle. Infertility is huge. Sort of one in three people are finding out they can't have children for whatever reason. The surrogacy event I went to there was about six, seven hundred people there and I'd roughly say sort of 75, 80% were straight couples and that was a big shock to me there. And then I actually took my mother-in-law and the day was split into different talks and she went off to the surrogate talk to go learn about it and apparently she got a lot of funny looks with this 65 year old woman sat in the back row thinking that she could be a surrogate?
Speaker 1:also, how far did you look into adoption? I only ask this because I was told that actually same gendered couples struggle a lot more with adoption than heterosexual couples. Is that something that you did? You come across that.
Speaker 3:So I looked into it and I won't say I looked into it heavily because I veered towards looking into surrogacy more in the first instance. I know that lots of rules are changing. I think quite a few have just changed recently actually to try and make it a bit easier for adopting. It's its own battlefield, it's its own journey and it needs to be respected. I think One of the things I've really learned about this whole process is that if you do want children when you start hitting 35, not for your body clock or any other reason, because it doesn't affect men quite in the same way but you need to start planning. You need to be able to take your time off work I have my own companies, as you do, and I need to know that they will be okay for six months a year so that I can actually dedicate time to and even after that time and but also having your finances set up.
Speaker 3:You know I looked at life insurance. I've looked at content, all the different insurances and things like that, because you you need them, one of the things of doing surrogacy as well you have to have a will. I didn't have a will. I never kept point. You know. You think about it. You think it's something older generation of people do, but you need it well because even before the babies are born, if you something happens to you and you're no longer around, who's gonna look after them?
Speaker 3:true but it's not all heavy. Yeah, there's quite a lot of lightness and loveliness and wonderfulness to it. And you know, we've just bought some little cute outfits that hopefully we can bring them home in, and bath thermometers and all the nappies, so many nappies. But then he's feeding every two hours for the first three weeks.
Speaker 1:What? Yeah, two of them, and that's yeah it's happening after Bruce. Just bring me back to life. I'm out with food, oh sorry.
Speaker 3:Oh awkward. And they may not want to feed, you know, they might want to just cry or whatever.
Speaker 1:So there's so much so much and they've missed their slot.
Speaker 3:Daddy's off to bed but you do find that new respect for your parents again being like wow, how did you actually do this?
Speaker 1:but I suppose between you and your partner as well, robbie you, I guess, if you think of like a heterosexual couple, you've got the mom and the dad and they may take on very different roles, and some of that might be quite habitual because of how they've grown up and maybe the obviousness of who's the more masculine, who's more feminine one. But then, in a same gendered couple, is that something you feel like just comes naturally between your bond that's why you grew close together or is it something you've discussed, like who's going to be, who's going to be the strict one, who's going to be there, you know, yeah exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's, it's. It's really interesting. I think, if you strip away gender from that conversation, it is actually just about personality types. Yeah, um, I really wanted to marry robbie and I'm very much in love with robbie and I could see that he's got so many qualities that I feel I personally don't have. That would really help in bringing up children. You know, he's very energetic and happy and he loves doing things and making things and creating imaginary forts and castles and crazy stuff.
Speaker 3:And that's now, so you can imagine what it's going to be, like when he's got a three-year-old daughter and a three-year-old son to play it a three-year-old daughter and a three-year-old son to play it.
Speaker 1:Sounds like you already have a child, I feel like me and Robbie are on the same page.
Speaker 3:There's a few people in the family that said the same thing. They're like, oh, you're going to have four children. I was like, oh God, but no, he brings so much joy and everything. And you know it sounds silly, but I know nothing about football and he knows everything about football. So I'm covered, I feel safe, I feel happy, you know, and I know more about musical theater and all the good yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 1:Actually, because you wouldn't want to necessarily put onto the kids like because, let me, I don't know anything about football and I'm not saying that I'd necessarily be, I don't know, I might not be attracted to someone who is or isn't, doesn't matter, but you would want someone to be able to cover that field in case. And then you think about that in a wider sense as well.
Speaker 3:You know, I'm having a daughter and that worries me because I am a man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, for the most part, um depends on the day, but um but, there are going to be questions that she may not want to ask me um and that I may not be able to give the best answer to, no matter how much I research it. So I've got to make sure there's strong women in my life. You know my mother, her aunties, et cetera, my mother-in-law that will step up and do that role. But they say it takes a village, you know, and maybe in a gay relationship it's just a slightly bigger village is needed.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, yeah, big old gay village.
Speaker 3:Yeah right, hey, the village people. I do not want them raising my children, but you would cover a lot of bases, you would. That's true, it's the policeman.
Speaker 1:So final question for me, I think, jonjo, is you've mentioned a few things like therapy. Basically, you've mentioned a lot of things that involve costs. So this is obviously not a I'm going to use the word cheap. It's not a cheap process to go down and it obviously has to be something that you really really want. Is the cost something that A you're happy to talk about and B higher than you originally?
Speaker 3:thought it was going to be yes, absolutely, talk about it all day long and actually it was lower than I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you hear a lot of scary stories and things on the grapevine and things like that. America is very expensive, expensive. It's very expensive. It's commercial out there. So it's going to be in england. It's not commercial. It's illegal for it to be commercial, like we said. Um. So for that to happen, you cover the costs of your surrogate and that's it, and you pay for the eggs if you want to, if you want to um, buy eggs.
Speaker 3:Uh, the eggs are expensive, the eggs you know. Roughly speaking you're looking about eight or nine grand for five to eight eggs. Um, and it's a bit unfair in england actually on that point as well, because the the donators, the women that donate, they get about six, seven hundred pounds, seven hundred and fifty pounds for donating. So it's really the clinics making the money there. But in terms of expenses for your surrogate it's very individual. So surrogate might need clothing, might need time off, work, all the rest of it, and that will cost you quite a bit. They roughly say it's about 15,000 pounds in expenses. Um, I'm quite fortunate at the minute that um stephanie has been looked after by the family quite a lot and all that sort of stuff. So it's slightly less for me personally and for robbie, but you're looking about 15 grand. So all in all you're probably looking about 20,000 pounds for Robbie, but you're looking about 15 grand. So all in all you're probably looking about 20,000 pounds split out over the whole process.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, and does that include? So, for example, yourself you put in two embryos to go for twins. Does that include?
Speaker 3:yes, yeah, oh, wow, yeah. So that's for the.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they put them in at the same time, so that's, that's the IVF, that's everything which I believe stands for intravenous fertilization in vitro fertilization.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's close.
Speaker 2:And is there any um help for that or any funding or grants, or is it all private?
Speaker 3:it's, oh, a bit of a horror story. I love the nhs. I would never say anything bad about it, but the only thing I will say is I did my first sperm test to see where my sperm count was. You need about 80 million sperm per milliliter, which just blows my mind, and so I did the first sperm test. They didn't really ask what it was for second sperm test because it was a bit low. They said why. You know what is the process that you're doing this for? I said it's for surrogacy and they stopped the process completely stopped it because they they don't fund it.
Speaker 3:It's not covered by the NHS. I know straight. You know hetero couples are allowed IVF if all the other avenues have been exhausted.
Speaker 1:But we're not covered yet at the minute. So even if you just wanted to know for your own, like headspace.
Speaker 3:Yeah, or you say you were trying for a child with your girlfriend.
Speaker 1:You couldn't just go in and go? I'm just curious to know for the future.
Speaker 3:I think generally you can't do that. I'm trying for a baby with my partner, who's a girl, that's really backwards yeah. And there's a lot of testing that's involved with that as well. In that £20,000 I was talking about, the eggs are checked for any sort of diseases diseases that can be passed down and and so are.
Speaker 2:So is your dna and your sperm and everything else as well, so it was all all included I mean john joe, thank you so much for coming on to the podcast and sharing all this wonderful information for, like I've learned so so much, if we wanted to find out a bit more, is there a website you can direct us to?
Speaker 3:yes, um. So the government recommends a couple of websites. The one that I remember off the top of my head I found the most useful is soxyukorg. They have a wealth of information, they're very happy to help and they can do free consultations etc to help you, uh, understand the journey wow, thank you so, so much for coming on to my big gay podcast.
Speaker 2:It's been absolutely brilliant to have you on, and your new children have got the most wonderful parents they're going to raise them.
Speaker 3:They're so lucky, so much. I want you to be my daddy as well.
Speaker 1:No, honestly john joe, I think coming on sharing this story. It's such a personal one, um. So thank you so much, and obviously thank you to your husband as well, obviously knowing he's here sharing your story but he's not here to show it himself. That's, it's really sweet of him, so the thanks passes on to him also. You have such a wonderful voice. I have to say this right now.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, I felt the same, but I didn't want to come across weird by saying it. So you're saying I'm weird no, no, I feel the same as you, but I didn't want.
Speaker 1:You think I was weird and I just want to say now that when you're at home telling bedtime stories, they are so lucky. Honestly, the voice is god, oh thank you so much.
Speaker 3:It's been an absolute pleasure being here. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:So I think we're gonna have listeners who may not want to do surrogacy but will listen purely for daddy's voice um yes, podcasters. That is sadly all we have time for in this week's episode of my big game podcast. If you don't, please do not forget to head over to our instagram it's at big game podcast or head over to our website. Sign up to our party list and we'll send you all sorts of different information of what's going on in our world.
Speaker 2:And also, if you did want to find out a little bit more information about surrogacy, we will pop those links onto our Instagram post about this episode. So head on to that post, give it a little like and scroll down and get more information.
Speaker 1:For sure, for sure. And if you do have any other questions that you want to ask us, or if, maybe, if you've been through it yourself and you want to write in with your stories, please do head into our dms. But, like I said, that's all we have time for in this week's episode of my big a podcast.
Speaker 2:Until next time john j, do you want to do it with us? Oh, my god here we go and see you.
Speaker 1:Next I'll go again, but, like I said, podcast, that's all we have time for in this week's episode of my big day podcast. Until next time. John Right, you have been doing it for six seasons. You should know what you're doing.
Speaker 2:John, do you know when you're coming in?
Speaker 1:Yes, Right, here we go.
Speaker 2:All together.
Speaker 1:But, like I said, podcast is all we have time for in this week's episode of next Wednesday. Oh my goodness, chaos, chaos, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
